TGFC Lifestyle - Powered by Discuz! Board

标题: PS3的RSX管芯尺寸比对等的G71大（240mm^2 vs 196mm^2） [打印本页]

作者: codjc 时间: 2006-11-12 11:23 标题: PS3的RSX管芯尺寸比对等的G71大（240mm^2 vs 196mm^2）

Exclusive: PlayStation 3's RSX is 240mm² and bigger than the PC equivalent
11-Nov-2006, 16:56.08 Reporter : Uttar
Based on the RSX die shots released by websites following the PlayStation 3's launch in Japan yesterday, we have successfully estimated the chip's die size by comparing it to the nearby Samsung GDDR3 memory chips. The result is approximately 240mm² and, even with the imperfect precision of our measurement method, we can safely claim it's between 230 and 245mm². That makes RSX roughly the same size as the CELL revision used in the PS3, which is known to measure 235mm², and it's a fair bit bigger than NVIDIA's PC equivalent to the RSX: the 90nm NVIDIA G71, which has a die size of 196mm². While TSMC's 90nm transistor density might be slightly different from that of Sony's fabs, it is unlikely to be a major factor here. The chip is also rumoured to run at 500MHz internally.

Based on our analysis and information, it seems that the RSX has 28 pixel shaders internally, with 24 active. G71, on the other hand, has only 24 and NVIDIA sells the defective parts as the 20 pixel shader GeForce 7900 GS. Such an opportunity for multiple SKUs based on the same die does not exist with consoles, and therefore higher redundancy is desirable. It's also likely that other parts of the RSX are therefore disabled for yeilding, such as the vertex shaders and possibly the raster operations units (ROPs). This is similar to the strategy used by Sony with the CELL, where 1 of the 8 SPEs is disabled.

While the RSX might have some parts removed compared to the G71, such as its PureVideo technology, transistor count is likely balanced back by having more redundancy and larger caches: indeed, we believe that most of the RSX's internal caches are larger compared to any G7x part, including the post-vertex transform cache and compression caches. In addition to its normal 48KiB of texture cache to its local memory, it also has an extra 96KiB of cache dedicated to communication with the XDR memory pool, in order to improve bandwidth utilization and average latency, and make it possible to use that memory pool for texturing operations - resulting in greater overall system bandwidth utilization.

Xbox 360's Xenos, on the other hand, is a 180mm² chip (plus the daughter die, with the eDRAM and ROPs) and does not seem to have this level of redundant parts disabled for yield reasons. Instead of coarse-grained yield management (entire functional blocks duplicated), it is rumoured to be duplicating smaller elements in each block (likely 17 shader ALUs per 16 required working - some patents, including this one, hint at this), in order to minimize the chip's die size while keeping yields in check. Both approaches are perfectly acceptable and industry standard nowadays.

Based on all of this information, RSX does not seem significantly more expensive to produce than Xenos, especially so when counting Xenos' daughter die, which is estimated at more than 70mm². It should be taken into consideration, however, that the PlayStation 3's memory costs are most likely higher than the Xbox 360's, and that the lack of eDRAM on the RSX is a contributing factor to this difference, as this requires the system to have higher overall memory bandwidth.

The memory chips being "nearer" to the graphics core, as visible on the die shots that can be found on the web, will however not give any performance advantage, and while it may increase costs very slightly, it will help for spreading the memory's heat. It should finally be noted that while the GDDR3 chips people have found next to RSX are rated at 1400MHz effective (700MHz internally), they will apparently only run at 1300MHz effective. This has most likely been done in order to also be able to use chips rated at 1333MHz effective by Samsung and possibly other manufacturers, a step which Sony might have deemed necessary to meet its long-term production goals and lifetime cost reductions.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35566

作者: 网上的final 时间: 2006-11-12 11:29

看来是老式的7800而不是优化后的7900了 ?

作者: tdkgtm 时间: 2006-11-12 11:29

才知道啊?北桥也在里面呢

作者: codjc 时间: 2006-11-12 18:54

LS的二位  想像力果然异常的丰富！！！原文你们仔细看了没有？

普通的显卡24PS的 7800GTX如果有部分的不良品  就可以改成20PS的7900GS！！

RSX有可能用的28PS！！  就算有极个别的不良品  也可以达到24PS的保证！！

RSX和G71相比  增加了96KB的缓存！！  为了提高从XDR内存的提取速度！打算强行利用XDR的带宽。。。。。

[ 本帖最后由 codjc 于 2006-11-12 19:19 编辑 ]

作者: chenmingod 时间: 2006-11-12 18:58

PC上7800GT也是24管的,RSX是基于G70的说,28管没听说过啊.

作者: BD 时间: 2006-11-12 19:01

引用:

原帖由 tdkgtm 于 2006-11-12 11:29 发表
才知道啊?北桥也在里面呢

还没听说把北桥封装在GPU里面的，你就表YY了
RSX的架构如下，自然要比G71大了

作者: abrina 时间: 2006-11-12 19:04

没有采用统一渲染架构，是一大遗憾啊

作者: 火彩 时间: 2006-11-12 19:14

引用:

原帖由 tdkgtm 于 2006-11-12 11:29 发表
才知道啊?北桥也在里面呢

我以为主板上那颗神秘的芯片是北桥呢，原来不是吗？

作者: 倍舒爽 时间: 2006-11-12 23:31

引用:

原帖由 BD 于 2006-11-12 19:01 发表

还没听说把北桥封装在GPU里面的，你就表YY了
RSX的架构如下，自然要比G71大了

上次b3d不是揭发了这图是假的么？
我也是听装版说的。。

作者: tdkgtm 时间: 2006-11-12 23:33

引用:

原帖由 BD 于 2006-11-12 19:01 发表

还没听说把北桥封装在GPU里面的，你就表YY了
RSX的架构如下，自然要比G71大了

你不是开玩笑吧？
到现在还拿个火星fake图来做传销啊？

作者: tdkgtm 时间: 2006-11-13 00:07

引用:

原帖由 codjc 于 2006-11-12 18:54 发表
LS的二位  想像力果然异常的丰富！！！原文你们仔细看了没有？

普通的显卡24PS的 7800GTX如果有部分的不良品  就可以改成20PS的7900GS！！

RSX有可能用的28PS！！  就算有极个别的不良品  也可以 ...

当然看了
首先，这个编辑很爱yy
其次，他再yy，也不敢确定rsx有四条屏蔽的管线
最后，就算有28条，难道你还指望真能用到？难道以后的ps3游戏还要看rp开管玩，结果有的主机运行游戏是30祯的，开过管的是35祯，是这个意思吧？

作者: tdkgtm 时间: 2006-11-13 00:10

还没听说把北桥封装在GPU里面的，你就表YY了

很难想象你真在intel混
xbox一代知道么？孤陋寡闻

作者: billh7 时间: 2006-11-13 11:38

正常，rsx用的是老式的g70核心128bit，rop减半的阉割版本

g70比后来优化过的g71也就晶体管多些，发热大些，能达到的频率低些。同频下性能基本一样

作者: doomking 时间: 2006-11-13 12:36

引用:

原帖由 billh7 于 2006-11-13 11:38 发表
正常，rsx用的是老式的g70核心128bit，rop减半的阉割版本

g70比后来优化过的g71也就晶体管多些，发热大些，能达到的频率低些。同频下性能基本一样

G71核心面积小索制程问题

作者: HunterXX 时间: 2006-11-13 12:39

RSX不仅是G70显卡还集成了北桥。当然大了 ORZ

作者: hdfeel 时间: 2006-11-13 13:00

g71 晶体管比 g70少 10%，性能，功能，指标都一样。

作者: billh7 时间: 2006-11-13 14:23

引用:

原帖由 doomking 于 2006-11-13 12:36 发表

G71核心面积小索制程问题

自己去对比下g70和g71的晶体管数，g71晶体管的优化减少才是主要的

作者: 久多良木健 时间: 2006-11-13 14:28

引用:

原帖由 abrina 于 2006-11-12 19:04 发表
没有采用统一渲染架构，是一大遗憾啊

pc，是硬件适应软件
console，是软件适应硬件
统一不统一，对于家用机根本无所谓

作者: codjc 时间: 2006-11-14 11:21

引用:

原帖由 久多良木健 于 2006-11-13 14:28 发表

pc，是硬件适应软件
console，是软件适应硬件
统一不统一，对于家用机根本无所谓

顶你说的话开发人员越来越图省事。。。。。。

欢迎光临 TGFC Lifestyle (http://tgfcer.com/)