引用:

原帖由 铁西瓜。 于 2008-2-25 09:58 发表
而是说WII上无法做出符合FF发展历史，符合FF一贯风格，无比华丽，而又波澜壮阔的FF。

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这是你们家给ff的定义？

ff的发展历史从七代开始才到ps，居然要由您来告诉我们ff的发展历史是 ...

希望您老看完后能够明白。。。
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http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3166572
GDC 08: The Technology of Final Fantasy XIII
FFXIII on Wii? We discuss the possibilities of Square's new tech.
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Like most Japanese developers, Square Enix has traditionally built the technology for each new game from scratch. While middleware solutions like the Unreal Engine have long been a favored solution for Western developers, the Square approach has been to tackle every new project from the ground up. But this is changing as development costs skyrocket; the upcoming The Last Remnant will be built on Unreal 3, and Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a King for WiiWare was deliberately conceived to test the feasibility of building a game almost entirely with middleware tools and scripts. Even more ambitious is Final Fantasy XIII's proprietary White Engine, now called Crystal Tools. As Square Enix's first companywide technology platform, it's a full suite of authoring tools and runtime libraries for PlayStation 3, PC and Xbox 360. (There's even a bit of support for Wii in place, although the latter is still in development.) Not only is Crystal Tools the power behind FFXIII, but also Final Fantasy Versus XIII and the company's as-yet unannounced next-generation MMO RPG as well.
Taku Murata, Square Enix's general manager of research and development, spoke today at GDC about the evolution of this new technology. According to Murata, Crystal Tools' evolution began with 1997's Final Fantasy Tactics for PlayStation, which was created with the aid of the company's first real-time development preview system. Murata was impressed by the efficacy of these tools, and took them a step further for 2000's Vagrant Story, his first game in real-time 3D; it featured a unified tool to create cut-scenes and preview textures. Murata's next major project was PlayOnline, the company's online game technology (primarily used for Final Fantasy XI) -- the company's first attempt at creating a common platform. Then came Final Fantasy XII, whose sheer enormity of FFXII required the creation of separate, specialized tool sets.

Murata realized that standardizing the technology behind Square Enix's game development was a matter of necessity as budgets and requirements soar in the high-definition era and spearheaded the creation of an internal R&D group. The White Engine was announced before the advent of the R&D division, but soon after evolved into Crystal Tools. It's a development environment specifically tailored to Square Enix's trademark big-budget style, notably allowing fine control over character close-ups, lighting and cut-scene editing. We sat down with Murata after his panel to discuss both the philosophy and the specifics of Crystal Tools.



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1UP: Your panel today was almost an evolution of your Final Fantasy XII talk last year. Does this reflect the philosophy behind FFXIII itself?

Taku Murata: Compared to FFXII, in terms of concept they're similar, but the technology is very different, because the current generation requires a higher level of quality. The data volume is much higher.

1UP: Crystal Tools represents something new for Square Enix, doesn't it? This sort of technology middleware is more popular among Western developers.

TM: Well, the American and Japanese markets are very different. In Japan, it used to be that the PS2 was huge, so as long as everything was being developed for PS2 everything was OK. But in the west, there were more hardware platforms to consider, such as Xbox and PC, and developers were forced to account for all of them. So in that sense, the western market has been more advanced than Japan. Since PS3's arrival, the market has become more multiplatform. Here, I have a slide that I didn't get to use in my presentation -- as you can see, in 2003 our top games were mostly PS2. But in 2007, the popular hardware in Japan was DS and Wii while the western market was more geared toward Xbox 360 and PC.

1UP: So what we're seeing in Crystal Tools is something more Japanese developers will be doing?

TM: Definitely -- anyone interested in competing in the worldwide market needs to consider a cross-platform approach. But it requires a large investment, so I don't know that all Japanese developers will be able to follow in our footsteps.

1UP: Crystal Tools is developed internally, but in the west licensing others' engines is also popular. Did you consider using middleware instead of building your own solution?

TM: We've considered licensing out Crystal Tools, but this brings with it certain considerations like supporting licensors...which isn't something we want to deal with at the moment.



1UP: Actually, I mean -- did you consider licensing someone else's technology?

TM: Actually, The Last Remnant uses the Unreal Engine, because we felt it was a good choice for a game targeted to the western market. However, for Final Fantasy XIII we chose to build our own tool set to reflect the culture of our creators. Crystal Tools is a means for our developers to express themselves. Ultimately, licensing isn't out of the question... it really just depends on the title.

1UP: I'm glad you mentioned Last Remnant... that seems like an Enix game. Even though the company is "Square Enix" I feel like you still create "Square" games and "Enix" games. Will Crystal Tools be used to build Enix games, or is it something specifically designed for games like Final Fantasy?

TM: Of course, Crystal Tools can be used for those games, but as you say, it's very "Square-like." An internal tool, really. Most Square games are developed inside the company, while Enix games are outsourced to other developers, so Crystal Tools wouldn't be appropriate for them.

1UP: I also noticed that the evolutionary path of Crystal Tools consisted of games and projects you worked on with Yasumi Matsuno. Is that simply because these games are your own frame of reference, or was this team simply ahead of the curve?

TM: Well, Matsuno's group, and particularly [art director] Hiroshi Minagawa, who is very influential... well, even myself, as I was the main programmer on those titles. We all share the same influences, so in a sense it's a very traditional, Square-like approach to production. But the process of Crystal Tools' creation has been very long, and we've been part of this paradigm shift, which you can see beginning with Tactics' real-time preview tool.

1UP: The most important aspect of Crystal Tools is that it's a multi-platform environment. How easy it is to move a game from one platform to another? Say, hypothetically, you wanted to port Final Fantasy XIII from PS3 to Xbox 360... how difficult would that be?

TM: Traditionally at Square we used to target just to a single platform and work deeply within that system, so it was very difficult to move a game to another system. But I'd say it's easier now. You still have factors like video memory and processing cores, so you have to adjust things like texture sizes. But Crystal Tools is a shared library, so it's much easier now. Those factors are already accounted for by the libraries, and it's possible to develop for different systems in parallel.

1UP: You mentioned at the panel that Nintendo's Wii is partially supported by Crystal Tools, but not completely. Why is Wii development lagging so far behind?

TM: The differences between Wii and 360, PS3 and PC are much bigger, and we're just not at the point in development where Wii support is completely ready.


1UP: Well, contrast Crystal Tools with Mr. Tsuchida's WiiWare team -- do you think what they're doing with Crystal Chronicles, using NintendoWare and third-party scripts, is a better fit for the platform?

TM: It really all comes down to the title in question and what you're doing with it. For instance, hypothetically -- don't take this seriously! -- if you wanted to create Final Fantasy XIII for PS3, Xbox 360, PC and Wii simultaneously, you'd need to use Crystal Tools.

1UP: Why "Crystal Tools"? And what happened to the White Engine? Was it absorbed? Abandoned?

TM: No, no, the White Engine wasn't abandoned. Actually, that was just a code name we used. Eventually we decided to give it a name that was more representative of Square. "Crystal" sounded nice, because it's something that's clear but can also be full of color -- and, of course, there's the Final Fantasy connection. So White Engine was version 1.0, which was released last year, and for version 1.1 we gave it the new name and a logo.
1UP: The presentation seemed to focus on tools for character creation and cut-scene direction. Is Crystal Tools also for combat and field graphics?

TM: Actually, one of the slides I presented shows field graphic elements being edited. Sorry, maybe I just focused too much on how cool the cut-scenes are! But yes, it's a visual framework for creating a whole game.

1UP: Crystal Tools encompasses everything except handheld and mobile games. Do you think there's a need for a similar sort of framework for these platforms?

TM: Well, Crystal Tools was mainly designed for large-scale development. That's why it targets PS3 and 360 -- systems where large volumes of data are used. For smaller systems, something like this wouldn't really be necessary. The tool is usable, but we don't have the libraries in place for portable systems and don't really see the need to go in that direction.
1UP: Were there any advantages to the old way of doing things, building each project from the ground up?

TM: Well, this framework is expandable, which is very useful as we have many different teams inside Square, and as I mentioned before Crystal Tools is tailored to our culture. So even if there's something that the tools don't do, something that doesn't exist in the current release, we can always add new abilities to account for these needs. In that sense, rather than building each title from scratch, we can continue to build better things on top of what we already have in place.

1UP: How has the parallel development of Crystal Tools impacted the development cycle of FFXIII or Versus XIII?

TM: Well, Crystal Tools will allow the development of games to be shortened, although in the end we'll probably be directing our energies in new ways, such as creating better visuals -- so in fact it may not shorten the development time required for our games. As for FFXIII, we've been working with the team as we develop Crystal Tools; while one group has focused on one thing we've focused on the other. So no, I don't think developing this system has complicated or delayed the game at all.

引用:

原帖由 ffcactus 于 2008-2-25 08:53 发表
蠢树同学居然还是食古不化，妄图高潮到底，境界颇为高也。
我以开始就说了引擎跨平台本来就是制作引擎的目的之一，可是LZ身为自称计算机系毕业的学生连这个也当大新闻而YY到高潮，我就觉得这LZ书读到那里去了？
   ...

所以說你被害妄想啊。:D 沒人連想到FF13跨平台，您自己要跳下來表演你的無知。

引擎開發的主要目的不是跨平台，而是商業決定策動開發。哪是你這個「引擎大論」可以亂扯的？一開始前提集合就錯了，被人踹，糾正你還不承認。不懂裝懂:D

引用:

原帖由 ffcactus 于 2008-2-23 14:25 发表
如今高成本的制作一个引擎的目的绝对不是让它封闭的只在某一个地方起作用。而是针对不同硬件结构提供一个统一的接口，开发者在一个统一的新的层次上专注于游戏的开发，而引擎根据硬件配置，生成特定的执行方式。举个 ...
引擎能够跨越更多的平台本来就是引擎设计的一个目标，如今却成了某些人YY的主料了

引用:

原帖由 ffcactus 于 2008-2-23 15:36 发表
那天EPIC想在WII上开发游戏， 同样也是完善他的UE引擎，使得他能移植到WII上，绝对不会再搞个新的引擎。 这种道理也不明白， 非要把商业因素牵涉进来，然后YY PS3上的游戏会移植WII， 这种YY有意思吗。莫非别的学不好， 就学会了自欺欺人

你太強大了。epic決定要作wii遊戲就不是商業因素意圖獲利？那什麼是商業因素，難道作遊戲就是慈善事業，為大眾玩家謀福利？

引用:

原帖由 索尼来也 于 2008-2-23 15:50 发表
这贴里是哪个白痴说了ff13要跨到wii上？把帖子找出来？还是你脑内补完的？

這裡究竟誰在要說FF13跨平台，讓您驚魂下自曝窘態？

引用:

如今高成本的制作一个引擎的目的绝对不是让它封闭的只在某一个地方起作用。而是针对不同硬件结构提供一个统一的接口，开发者在一个统一的新的层次上专注于游戏的开发，而引擎根据硬件配置，生成特定的执行方式。举个 ...
引擎能够跨越更多的平台本来就是引擎设计的一个目标，如今却成了某些人YY的主料了

這段話一開始就是錯的。集合指涉錯誤。所以你不見我拿獨佔遊戲的廠商引擎回你嗎？也許是你被嚇壞了，所以說話說不清了吧。:D

[ 本帖最后由 村上春樹 于 2008-2-25 11:13 编辑 ]

引用:

原帖由 ffcactus 于 2008-2-25 10:53 发表


希望您老看完后能够明白。。。
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http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3166572
GDC 08: The Technology of Final Fantasy XIII
FFXI ...

我英文又不好，你拿这么多英文滥竽充数什么？

有话自己的嘴巴说不出来么？:D

都以“您老”相称。看来还是很和谐的

你自己嗑药过头而失态， 现在狡辩也无法掩盖自己真实含义。

人家想说的真实含义，貌似不是你想当然可以做数的。

擅自揣测别人用意貌似是很犯忌讳的哦

引用:

原帖由 ffcactus 于 2008-2-23 14:25 发表
如今高成本的制作一个引擎的目的绝对不是让它封闭的只在某一个地方起作用。而是针对不同硬件结构提供一个统一的接口，开发者在一个统一的新的层次上专注于游戏的开发，而引擎根据硬件配置，生成特定的执行方式。举个 ...

看看神之前放的的高调吧

引用:

二，关于白引擎，和SE的强项--美工。

        为了实现这些，很多人可能想到了，那就是其复杂性将会非常之高，开发时间和开发成本也将随之变长变多。而SE不愧是一个容创新与远见为一体的公司。SE让2个主力小组全力开发“白引擎”。这里我想谈谈自己的看法。也许有人会奇怪，为什么SE不用现在已经广泛运用的虚幻3引擎（以下简称U3）呢？运用这个引擎的优秀游戏是有不少啊。绝不是SE技术不行，也不是用不会或用不好。就我所知，U3其实是一个比较通用的引擎，他虽然强大，但是他的特点是通用，但是是针对PC结构的，而且不是完全针对游戏来定置的。那么现在SE全力开发的白引擎，明显是针对PS3来开发的，它不一定需要非常通用，因为它将作为公司内部今后最高引擎用于PS3游戏的开发，所以他可以针对PS3的各种特点加以优化，充分发挥PS3的机能。也许它还针对SE的强项游戏类型加以特别的优化。记得前段时间有关对开发人员的采访中，开发人员说，最终游戏效果绝对不会比宣传的差，只会更好！SE的承诺我相信。
        SE的这些做法完全符合“为了最优秀的表达效果”这个一贯作风。与此同时，SE的另一个强项--美工，将会使得SE的游戏在次世代里更加光彩夺目。有很多游戏采用的技术确实是先进，却因为美工不足，使得看上去却远远没那么好。可以说SE的美工是游戏界最顶级之一。优秀的美工不是技术不足的代名词。他能使得游戏更加美伦美涣，锦上添花。
        成熟的技术加顶级的美工将使得SE获得巨大的优势。

三，新的RPG，新的FF。

        根据开发人员的意思，FF13将追求象FF7AC电影里的那种战斗效果。相信看过FF7AC的人都知道，那战斗真是华丽至极。相信FF12战斗系统的突破也已经得到充分的肯定，FF12已经把PRG的战斗模式推向了一个新纪元。在我看来，依托PS3强大的机能，以及对FF12的研究，和SE的不断追求创新的精神，追求FF7AC那样的战斗效果，已经成为切实可行的目标。在我看来，关键是对于敌我双方AI的研究，对于物理模型的研究，对于玩家能适应何种复杂程度的操作的研究，对于游戏视角的研究等。要把这些都和谐的统一起来，是件非常艰巨的任务，也许这就白引擎为什么一定先行，并且那么重要。在我看来，白引擎一定是个充分利用CELL的SPE和RSX，将特效渲染，AI，物理计算结合在一起的专用引擎。如果SE成功的做到了，那么在短时间内，很多游戏将无法达到那样的高度，FF13将绝对成为PS3游戏中“FF7”。现在白引擎v1.0正在开发中，后续版本也会陆续推出，就让我们共同期待吧。

http://tgfc.qwd1.com/club/viewth ... ight=%2B%2Bffcactus
神，你自抽起来还真是有瘾啊！

首先LS的这位朋友依然还记得我写的这篇文章，我还是感到非常高兴。:D
当初我说：
那么现在SE全力开发的白引擎，明显是针对PS3来开发的，它不一定需要非常通用，因为它将作为公司内部今后最高引擎用于PS3游戏的开发，所以他可以针对PS3的各种特点加以优化，充分发挥PS3的机能。
我说的好像一点没错，白引擎就是这个的，只是现在成了version1.1 可以支持XBOX,PC，并且还准备让部分功能在WII上实现，而且现在改名字为Crystal Tools.  很明显Crystal Tools 中依然包含了白引擎中正对PS3独特开发的部分。

1UP: Why "Crystal Tools"? And what happened to the White Engine? Was it absorbed? Abandoned?

TM: No, no, the White Engine wasn't abandoned. Actually, that was just a code name we used. Eventually we decided to give it a name that was more representative of Square. "Crystal" sounded nice, because it's something that's clear but can also be full of color -- and, of course, there's the Final Fantasy connection. So White Engine was version 1.0, which was released last year, and for version 1.1 we gave it the new name and a logo

[ 本帖最后由 ffcactus 于 2008-2-25 14:07 编辑 ]

引用:

原帖由 ffcactus 于 2008-2-25 14:03 发表
首先LS的这位朋友依然还记得我写的这篇文章，我还是感到非常高兴。:D
当初我说：
那么现在SE全力开发的白引擎，明显是针对PS3来开发的，它不一定需要非常通用，因为它将作为公司内部今后最高引擎用于PS3游戏的开发 ...

真是可惜，虽然浪费了那么多口水想做SE和白引擎的代言人，结果又被耍了。

SE的这些做法完全符合“为了最优秀的表达效果”这个一贯作风。

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一贯以“为了最优秀的表达效果”作风为准则的se居然要把超级引擎小白变成同样支持wii的通用引擎Crystal Tools，真是堕落到极点！！！！！

ff神的自抽文众矣，何止此项乎？

雷帝问曰：“何如斯可谓之士矣？”ff神曰：“行己有耻，使于天下，不辱高清，可谓士矣。”帝问曰：“敢问其次。”ff神复曰：“久多称孝焉，平井称弟焉。”帝续曰：“敢问其次。”ff神又曰：“言必信，行必果，硁硁然capcom哉！抑亦可以为次矣。”帝曰：“今之第三方se者何如？”ff神怒曰：“噫！斗筲之人，何足算也。明设白擎，实走二心，设wii妖之邪路，辱吾等英名一世，死不足惜！该杀！”皆大笑

[ 本帖最后由 铁西瓜。 于 2008-2-25 14:33 编辑 ]

只需要这一句就可以了

引用:

在我看来，白引擎一定是个充分利用CELL的SPE和RSX，将特效渲染，AI，物理计算结合在一起的专用引擎。

这一巴掌抽得可真是响亮啊！

太欢乐了，以为企业都是做慈善的么

這帖本來經過我抽完ff神後就沒他的事了，帖該沉了還自己上來抵抗讓人挖墳？這是怎樣的大無畏精神，才能蕩然地面對自己過去的那股自以為豪氣的幼稚短視呢

引用:

原帖由 铁西瓜。 于 2008-2-25 14:16 发表
SE的这些做法完全符合“为了最优秀的表达效果”这个一贯作风。

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一贯以“为了最优秀的表达效果”作风为准则的se居然要把超级引擎小白变成同样支持wii的通用引擎Cryst ...

您老是老糊涂了吧？
首先，Crystal Tools是白引擎的升级，白引擎能做的，他都能做，并且肯定是更好，同时Crystal Tools扩展到了XBOX/PC。
您老却得出白引擎缩水成了只支持WII一样，无下限啊。。。
MATLIB能做及其复杂的数学运算， 难道就不能做1+1吗？  UE3.0+ 那天也能支持WII了， 难道UE3.0+开发的有先进视觉的游戏一下就成了WII水准吗？